In this episode of the B2B Marketing Methods podcast, host Terri Hoffman, CEO of Marketing Refresh, interviews Heidi Hattendorf, the [founder of Transformation Insights to explore the evolving landscape of B2B marketing. Personal insights and career reflections from Heidi provide valuable takeaways for professionals looking to achieve sustainable growth and success in a rapidly evolving market.
Key topics include the integration of marketing, sales, and customer success roles, the importance of data accuracy, strategies for effective workflow setups, and ROI-focused marketing investments. The experts delve deeply into brand positioning, messaging strategies, budget allocation, and strategic planning for various B2B industries. Terri and Heidi discuss the importance of staying current with market trends, maintaining customer contact, and adopting data-driven go-to-market strategies. The necessity of balancing technological proficiency with business acumen for organizational success is also highlighted.
Topics Discussed:
transformative role of AI and automation
Integration of marketing and sales
Importance of brand positioning and messaging
Making data-driven marketing decisions
To learn more about Heidi, connect with her on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidihattendorf/
To learn more about Terri, connect with her on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terrihartley/
To connect with Marketing Refresh, visit: MarketingRefresh.com
Full Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Terri Hoffman: Welcome to B2B Marketing Methods. I’m your host, Terri Hoffman, and I’m the CEO of Marketing Refresh. Let’s face it, embracing digital marketing is daunting. This podcast was created to make it more approachable. Join me as we talk to CEOs, sales leaders, and revenue growth experts who will share lessons learned and tips from their own journeys.
[00:00:24]
[00:00:24] Terri Hoffman: Welcome everyone today to another episode of B2B marketing methods. I’m excited today to have a guest with me, her name is Heidi Hattendorf. Heidi is the founder and executive marketer who does consulting work for her business called Transformation Insights.
[00:00:41] Terri Hoffman: And I’m going to have Heidi introduce herself in a little bit more detail in a minute, but I wanted to highlight some of the things we’re going to be talking about in our podcast interview today. So, we’re going to be talking about just how marketing has changed, how it’s been evolving. I mean, this year in particular has been pretty big, but one of the reasons it’s been changing is because of AI.
[00:01:01] Terri Hoffman: And so we’re going to be talking about how AI has impacted the marketing industry, how companies can begin to embrace their use of AI in the sales and marketing and go-to-market strategies. We’re also going to be talking about the concept of ROI or return on your marketing investment. How that can play into your budgeting.
[00:01:21] Terri Hoffman: So it’s, the end of 2024 right now during this date of recording and it’s the time of year when brands are beginning to think about budgeting for 2025. So we’re going to spend some time talking about processes and ways that you can formulate your marketing budget. We’re also going to be talking about best practices for go-to-market strategies.
[00:01:41] Terri Hoffman: So, I’ve emphasized some of Heidi’s marketing consulting capabilities, but in a broader sense, she also has a lot to add on the sales side. So the entire more holistic go-to-marketing strategy, we’re going to talk about that. And then we’re going to also talk about what she’s hearing in the market and some of the lessons learned and best practices.
[00:02:00] Terri Hoffman: What her clients are talking to her about. So, I think it’s going to be a really educational, fun episode. Heidi, thank you for joining me today. It’s a pleasure to have you here.
[00:02:09] Heidi Hattendorf: Thank you, Terri. Thanks for having me on your show. I really appreciate it. Yeah. It’s such an important topic all around.
[00:02:15] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, everything that we’re going to talk about today. These are all the hot buttons, right? That prospects I’m talking to are bringing up, other marketers that I know this is, these are all just really important things to talk through. And, and I can’t wait to get your perspective on them.
[00:02:29] Terri Hoffman: I’d love it if you can begin the interview by just introducing yourself with a little bit more detail. How did you get your marketing started and how did you end up where you are today?
[00:02:38] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, absolutely. So I am the founder and lead for Transformation Insights and we’re a consulting company and business advisory that primarily works with smaller companies looking to grow in scale. And in particular, we focus on the positioning and the messaging, really getting that right, which then translates into very powerful go to market plays that are right for that business.
[00:03:00] Heidi Hattendorf: I’m finding a lot of customers are just overwhelmed on so many different ways to go to market. So many things that can be done, but what’s really right for their business and for their market. So, I bring a career of leading marketing teams, executive roles, vice president of marketing, CMO, product marketing roles.
[00:03:18] Heidi Hattendorf: I worked for a large company, Motorola, both on the cellular and also on the public safety side. And then a couple of medium sized SaaS companies were really the VC backed, really the goal there was growth, expanding, let’s say, into new verticals, into new different types of markets. I’ve now brought all of that executive experience into being able to help package that up and serve clients and be able to help them with their own growth plans.
[00:03:44] Heidi Hattendorf: So it’s, it’s absolutely been a really exciting time. I specialize in B2B and in all cases, there’s just always some really great learnings and some great results that we always get.
[00:03:54] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s a really good background because like you said that all of these different areas of practice are, are beginning to like merge together and the lines are getting pretty gray.
[00:04:04] Terri Hoffman: And then at the time they’re getting gray, it’s like, does it matter that they’re getting gray or should we all be embracing how sales and marketing and, customer success and operations are fusing together, right? It can actually be a positive thing as long as there’s some good oversight from the leadership team.
[00:04:21] Terri Hoffman: Like, what do you experience in that regard on how these roles are evolving?
[00:04:25] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, well said. I mean, I think The biggest change is that it’s no longer in serial that let’s say marketing set something up and then hands over to sales and then there’s a happy customer, which then goes to customer success, which is a very sequential type process.
[00:04:40] Heidi Hattendorf: And there’s no need for that now. It’s really more of how can we rally teams around, let’s say the same metrics, the same KPIs, which at the end of the day is really about helping serve that customer, helping them get the results that they want to get within their business. And so you mentioned too, about like some of the strategies and about AI making such a difference.
[00:05:00] Heidi Hattendorf: I mean, one of the great ways that that can happen is by mining more information. So we have more information than ever about our prospects and about our customers and then it’s really a matter of how are we using that information. So that’s what I find really exciting as well, is that it’s one of the reasons why we no longer have to have these silos, but we can bring teams together, let’s say around the same dashboards, around the same data metrics, around the same campaigns, and then together watch for the results.
[00:05:29] Heidi Hattendorf: And together try to improve on those and make it a better customer experience overall.
[00:05:33] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, the whole scenario you just described, what’s one way that you see an organization successfully setting up that structure and accountability, even just starting there, how the KPIs are set, where does that start? What are some of the keys to making sure that, that’s set up the right way?
[00:05:52] Heidi Hattendorf: The accountability is critical and also just having the right data and the right KPIs or measures. It’s one of those things where, we have so much data that it can be taken so far. Next thing you know, we’re just so busy pulling together dashboards, analyzing the data.
[00:06:06] Heidi Hattendorf: Next thing we’re really losing sight, there’s a potential to lose sight of what the customer really wants and where the market’s headed. So I always recommend, and what I’ve seen most successfully done is having a few core KPIs or measures and it’s different for every company, but it’s going to probably be something around conversion, like what’s actually converting into real business? What’s the lifetime value of a customer, not just what’s happening short term. Profitability is becoming much more appreciated. I think the days of just, growth at any cost are certainly gone and it’s much more about profitability so that the company has money to reinvest and, and to be able to expand more responsibly. So those are a few key areas, but I also think like the personalization and being able to reach out to the market so that the message resonates. You’re going to hear over and over about quality over quantity, less is more. So companies are just getting fatigued with trying to go across all of these different channels and having so many teams involved in so many different areas. So how can they get the most out of the go to marketplace that they’ve chosen?
[00:07:11] Heidi Hattendorf: So, so really in summary, I would say it’s a few key measures. Having the right channels and the right go to marketplace for their market. And then the personalization and then together looking at some of those metrics and adjusting course from there.
[00:07:25] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, how do you track all of this? Are you typically advising your clients to be committed to a CRM tool or a marketing automation tool? What are your best practices that you advise?
[00:07:37] Heidi Hattendorf: There’s so many tools out there especially then with AI and with automation, much better ways to stitch together the marketing stack than ever before.
[00:07:45] Heidi Hattendorf: I think for too long, companies had to themselves become such, martech and sales ops experts to be able to connect. But let’s assume that some of that is connected. So, yeah, definitely leveraging, CRM, but also marketing automation. On the front end of that, and then being able to easily get the results that you’re looking forward to be able to to measure.
[00:08:07] Heidi Hattendorf: So so simple dashboards. I think a lot of companies got caught up and just, very complex dashboards. They weren’t even sure what they were seeing. Could they trust the data? Really trusting the data and then being able to let’s say have the clean data, have the data governance is another big one.
[00:08:23] Heidi Hattendorf: Because otherwise you’re always going through a cleaning exercise, but it’s more about how are you going to instill simple things like the, the customers, the same name, it’s always entered that way. If you’re using a CRM, is there a, A diligence where teams are updating what can be automated so the teams don’t manually have to update.
[00:08:41] Heidi Hattendorf: Can that pull from from email or from meetings? So take away some of that manual burden so that the data is cleaner and that you trust the data and that always have a human oversight. Right? Does this even make sense? Does this pass the logic test? And get it into good shape that way. So those are some best practices, but you know, I always think it’s really about like, let the bots do what they can do, let the automation AI do what it can do and leave the humans to that human side.
[00:09:09] Heidi Hattendorf: There’s always going to be that human interaction, the decision making, and that’s really where you can help the teams the most. So that’s what I’ve been seeing.
[00:09:16] Terri Hoffman: You’ve talked a lot about AI. Are there certain functional areas or skill areas where you see AI making a bigger impact? I think a lot of the things that you see in blogs and things that might show up to a business owner or a leadership groups feed is like, Oh, I can do all the writing for you can do the sales outreach for you, it can do design and put a whole website together.
[00:09:39] Terri Hoffman: My skeptical hat gets turned on when I, when I see those things. But like from your perspective and experience, what areas are you seeing AI, like really making the most impact?
[00:09:51] Heidi Hattendorf: I feel like these extremes of, oh, AI is going to replace, all of these different functions, and then people feel like they’re putting their head in the sand if they don’t just jump onto that bandwagon all the way to, it’s going to have no impact.
[00:10:03] Heidi Hattendorf: Right, and we know that the answer is somewhere in between, and it really depends. But I think to your point, like the most critical is what can be automated, looking at what are these manual repetitive tasks? It’s like redoing the plumbing every time and the connectors, just doesn’t make sense.
[00:10:20] Heidi Hattendorf: Then when you come to things like writing, why not AI assisted, to help create, let’s say the outline or the flow or, or pulling some research notes or quotes, it’s, it’s again, a matter of degree. So when, when people think that all of the writing can be done. then it’s all going to look the same.
[00:10:37] Heidi Hattendorf: It’s just regurgitated and it’s not going to really stand out. Now, if it’s just to get across some of the basic information and then you build on it, that’s different, but that’s where the nuanced and the true human side about understanding the brand, understanding the problem statements that customer is experiencing, being able to tell that story, you just can’t get that with
[00:10:59] Heidi Hattendorf: reformatted text. And that’s where I think companies are maybe index a little too far. You can already see it starting to come back to back to like the human touch, some human style in there. So to answer your question, it’s really in between, but yeah, absolutely think there’s a role for AI in helping assist with that.
[00:11:18] Heidi Hattendorf: Helping on automation. Analytics is key. Why should somebody have to crunch? Remember how long it used to take teams at quarter end or year end, to come up with, just being able to track, why of course that should be in real time, and we’re seeing more of that with the tools that are out there.
[00:11:33] Heidi Hattendorf: And then moving from just pure data insights into predictive. Okay, so what is that telling us? And what does that now inform on where we should go next? But again, still having some human common sense, overlay into does this make business sense? Because we still want to really be the ones directing and understanding the business.
[00:11:52] Heidi Hattendorf: So those are a couple of examples that I look towards on AI that I help companies with.
[00:11:56] Terri Hoffman: Have you seen the HubSpot release about what they’ve, just announced at the inbound conference? They added a whole new AI engine called Breeze?
[00:12:05] Heidi Hattendorf: I think that’s one company that’s really embraced things like the personalization, ease of workflow, connecting up the information, just really trying to simplify and make the B2B workflow work. So yeah, it’s an excellent example.
[00:12:21] Terri Hoffman: Yeah.
[00:12:22] Terri Hoffman: When you talk about a workflow in the B2B space, like, could you break down an example? I, I want this all to feel more approachable for executives and they, they might be sales executives or business executives who just don’t really know that much about digital marketing. And this podcast is a platform for them to learn and to get educated so that it’s more approachable and more something that they could potentially act on. But could you even just explain what a workflow is and give an example of how a workflow functions?
[00:12:54] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, of course.
[00:12:54] Heidi Hattendorf: And I think too, for so long, you’ve heard sales and marketing teams saying people don’t even realize what goes into it. But the good news is that’s becoming more simplified with these modernized tools. But think of a workflow is like an end to end.
[00:13:07] Heidi Hattendorf: So let’s just say, for example, launching a new product and we want to get the word out. So a workflow for that could be first, let’s do an announcement. There could be email that goes out through the CRM. So it’s a certain segment of that contact list. There could be a webinar being announced to help with that promotion.
[00:13:26] Heidi Hattendorf: And so all of this is tied together. There’s probably a landing page that gets tied, possibly ads, let’s say through LinkedIn. So the workflow is really all the steps in the sequence. To be able to make that happen. So what I just described on a launch, a webinar, ads, those are actually separate. Those could even be separate workflows in and of themselves, but they’re connected in that what you see for someone watched an ad and then maybe we’re going to send them the webinar link.
[00:13:51] Heidi Hattendorf: And the, it’s the connection that’s that much more important today that used to be done manually. Somebody had to look at those, those names and then port this list over there. Okay. It’s, it’s connected. And also for lead scoring, like how often was somebody on your website? How interested? So things like intent, are they just looking or are they downloading some assets?
[00:14:13] Heidi Hattendorf: Are they registering for your webinar? So even though the workflow is literal about, how you set this up, it’s also really talking about the buyer’s journey. And as we’re learning more about that buyer, as they go through and experience, from your website, download assets, show up at different events.
[00:14:31] Heidi Hattendorf: You can really start to understand the picture about, is there an interest? Is there intent? So that when a salesperson then engages, they’ve got that much more information. And the same with the buyer. They’ve got that much more information about the company. So it’s a more powerful exchange.
[00:14:47] Terri Hoffman: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That was a great breakdown. Really helpful. I think we’re just so good as marketers about using all of our lingo and all of our go-to-market lingo. And honestly, I will talk to people and I can tell, like, they’re smart enough to understand what I’m talking about, but they don’t know our vocabulary,
[00:15:04] Terri Hoffman: right? So I want to make sure that we’re connecting the dots on a marketer’s vocabulary so that the business person who is ultimately accountable for the results and the budget management and making sure that there is a return, like the more that they can learn about all of our terminology, I think it breaks down those walls and makes it, feel so much more tangible. Because there’s a lot of value a go-to-market team can add
[00:15:29] Terri Hoffman: and it’s, it’s just critical to me, like the soapbox I’m standing on from here until I see a big change is, embrace it. Like this, this isn’t that difficult, but at the same time, there is so much information that your marketing and sales team knows about your clients that can be tracked and broken down into really important metrics.
[00:15:52] Terri Hoffman: The same way your CFO and controller can look at the financial performance of your company and tell you such important data points, like that mindset needs to be brought over to the go to market team in that same way.
[00:16:05] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, no, it’s so true.
[00:16:07] Heidi Hattendorf: Just speaking in plain English and not, sometimes the, the jargon, like, yeah, that standardizes it across marketing teams. The same with within a given company. Sometimes companies can take on their own jargon or an industry can take on jargon. And it’s okay if, if that buyer or that prospect or, or current customer understands that, but why should they, why should they have to unpack the jargon?
[00:16:29] Heidi Hattendorf: So I also see this move as, as companies are moving towards, quality over quantity, less is more, simple. Like just get to the point, we’re even seeing that you mentioned before on, on writing and content, there’s a place for long-form and SEO loves long-form, and in certain technical audiences, of course, and if someone wants more in-depth information, but sometimes short and crisp and to the point is all someone needs and you can layer it, click here for more.
[00:16:56] Heidi Hattendorf: That type of thing and just, just make it easy and simple and your buyer doesn’t have to be an expert in a three letter acronyms or jargon, as you said.
[00:17:05] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, no, you’re, you’re exactly right. Like you’re really touching on, I think one of your primary areas of expertise, which is, developing a message and helping a company develop a brand.
[00:17:16] Terri Hoffman: Can you talk to me a little bit more about maybe some of Like an overview of the method that you follow? What are some of the important things that you make sure are done to help a company identify their brand and then articulate it?
[00:17:28] Heidi Hattendorf: Sure. sometimes companies think, well, it can either focus on brand for marketing or on the performance metrics.
[00:17:34] Heidi Hattendorf: You need both, right? You need the brand to tell the story about why you’re different, what’s important. And then the go-to-market plays that really help bring together, all of these different messages out to the market that resonate and then measure those, right? And so I always look first at the positioning.
[00:17:51] Heidi Hattendorf: So getting a really clear understanding about who you’re targeting, what problem the company is solving, and then how are you able to do that better than what’s out there on the market, what the customer’s currently using, because, maybe it’s, maybe it’s good enough, what they’re using.
[00:18:07] Heidi Hattendorf: So, really understanding those pain points, how you solve those and then how you’re different. Once that’s clear, then you can move to messaging. And then I work with companies to create, a messaging framework, a messaging matrix, so that everyone’s on the same page. And then those can tie into different go-to-market plays, such as whether it’s event marketing,
[00:18:28] Heidi Hattendorf: maybe it’s an email campaign, could just be an update to the website, but then all of that’s going to connect and have, let’s say different formats of the messaging. But all of that rolls back to, the unique positioning, how the company’s solving problems and why will this resonate with that particular buyer, that persona, as we call it, that job title, let’s say.
[00:18:49] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, most, most B2B purchases are done by teams, right?
[00:18:53] Terri Hoffman: And so you’ve got to understand. The overall brand positioning for the company, but then that messaging strategy is going to help to deliver on the pain points for the job roles. Like you might have job roles who are part of the decision making process.
[00:19:08] Heidi Hattendorf: Absolutely. Yeah. And it’s really important to look at exposing some of those job titles to the wider message too.
[00:19:14] Heidi Hattendorf: Because this is the part for the CFO that it’s just only numerical, but of course the CFO wants to understand how does this solve the problem. And they want to make sure that, let’s say this is a long-term solution and they won’t have to replace it in a year.
[00:19:27] Heidi Hattendorf: The suite of courts are going to want a holistic view, but, but then yeah, addressing specific pain points, ROI, the financials, is appropriate, but not getting too laser focused and missing, let’s say, what’s the value prop. Because any of the stakeholders will need that at some level.
[00:19:44] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, I think that positioning too, it becomes such a huge sales tool, right? There is so much need for training and reinforcing with the salespeople or the business development reps who are out there actually on the front lines, talking to your customers. If they don’t have a standardized message that represents the brand as a whole, they’re going to make it up and they’re not going to make it up because they’re irresponsible.
[00:20:08] Terri Hoffman: They have to have something to say, right? So having that brand platform is just, it’s so helpful for every part of the go-to-market team.
[00:20:15] Heidi Hattendorf: It’s such a good point. Otherwise, they’ll take their own perspective and their own experience from it, and that could vary regionally. It could depend if they’re, let’s say in the technical part of the organization, or are they on the front line?
[00:20:26] Heidi Hattendorf: How many customers have they dealt with? It should be, again, really simple so that it’s coming out consistently from the company and that it’s something that resonates. I see this over and over, though, that, companies are quick to, let’s say, get into all of the different go-to-market plays, but then have they really taken a moment to refresh on what that positioning is, especially if they’re looking to enter adjacent markets.
[00:20:49] Heidi Hattendorf: Whether that’s adjacent verticals, launch new products, or even, even appeal to a different, let’s say segment or, job title or persona with their existing product line. It’s really important to get back to some of those basics and then refresh compared to what’s, what is competition doing.
[00:21:05] Heidi Hattendorf: What are some of the substitute technologies and disruptors that are out there, whether it’s a product or a service, it’s really the same, the same methodology and the same approach.
[00:21:15] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, it’s a critical step. You can, you can spend a lot of money putting marketing communications and getting out into those different channels and waste a lot of valuable resources if you don’t have that message and the positioning nailed down first. So that when you’re going to market, there’s so many, so many variables that you’ve got to track and adjust. And what you don’t want to have to adjust is that main message. When you got into the market, you want to have a solid position on that so that that can stay consistent and you can try like, oh, maybe we didn’t have the right call to action at the end, or maybe
[00:21:49] Terri Hoffman: we didn’t target the right keywords with our ads, or maybe we had the job titles off in our LinkedIn ads. There’s already enough variables to try to adjust an A-B test. And so that message I think is just critical.
[00:22:02] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, well said. I mean, the testing is so important because you want to isolate, test a couple of things, see what’s working, not just completely reinvent because you want to be able to look at, what, what is working and resonating and there’s nothing wrong with, too, just asking people. I know we have all these digital tools and, everything’s done, but, one of my favorite books, Nail It Then Scale It, where you get like a small, smaller group.
[00:22:24] Heidi Hattendorf: It’s just back to focus groups, but it can even be one or two clients for that discovery process. Get their feedback, adjust from there. And then, just adjusting as you go, just being willing to be open to feedback.
[00:22:37] Terri Hoffman: I want to shift gears, and talk about budgeting.
[00:22:40] Terri Hoffman: So because you’re in an executive, consulting and business advisory role when you first start engaging with the company and they’re like, okay, we want to market, we want to grow, we want to grow more leads, we need to build our brand awareness. When it comes to the topic of budgeting, tell me how you coach your clients through a budget cycle of planning, how to allocate the right amount.
[00:23:04] Terri Hoffman: Maybe just give us some tidbits and highlights of that process.
[00:23:07] Heidi Hattendorf: It’s such an important process. It’s great to see how many companies have started engaging that much earlier, September, October to really get ready. So it’s not, not just a reactive but I always look at, what, what has been the trend the last couple of years?
[00:23:22] Heidi Hattendorf: If they’re in a huge growth cycle, maybe it’s changing so dramatically it’s hard to necessarily have, have, let’s say trends, but really looking at what’s worked, what hasn’t worked, where are they investing? And then, part of my role is to help look at some cost savings and then reinvestment in new areas just to make sure that, they’re looking at, let’s say newest technologies, what can help simplify, again coming back to that workflow so that they’re automating where possible. And sometimes it goes the other way where companies have so many tools, it’s almost like an overwhelm to people within the teams, right? So sometimes that’s where the less is more comes in that. Is it really adding that much more value? And maybe it is, but it, it’s, it shouldn’t be a given year on year for each of those.
[00:24:07] Heidi Hattendorf: And then looking at expertise as well. So are there gaps in the team? Maybe there’s some contracts that could help them bringing in like an SEO expert or somebody, let’s say to help with, with peak events or, there’s, there’s just really busy times that can actually be a huge cost savings rather than taking on another full-time headcount or working with an agency.
[00:24:27] Heidi Hattendorf: I often bring in agencies as, as part of what I do. And so it’s looking holistically at what’s working, what are the goals? And not just marketing goals. What are the company goals? What is it that they’re trying to achieve? And then really mapping, against that, and then looking for that, that ROI, but I almost always find ways to help either shift, shift dollars, save, save costs, or just spend it more strategically so that, definitely they’re going to see that impact and then making it a collaborative process. So it’s not just only marketing talking this through, but sales marketing really part of that overall company goal, because what marketing drives is going to have an impact, across the company.
[00:25:10] Heidi Hattendorf: And then that’s where it’s more of that orchestrated go-to-market. And so we talked in the beginning about multiple teams coming together. Well, the same is true on budgets. It can’t just be, well, marketing’s going to spend this sales is going to spend this, it’s got some of that has to be looked at together, as one bucket so that the teams are collaborating as well, and then they’re going to get some, some results together.
[00:25:31] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, I, I completely agree about that. It’s, we see from time to time that there, there are activities happening and investments happening in those different groups that are either working against each other, unintentionally, or they’re like double paying for many of the similar services or functions.
[00:25:50] Terri Hoffman: And so the more they can bring that together and evaluate it, they’re going to just make better use of that overall budget. Do you run into that same kind of thing?
[00:25:57] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, I mean, especially on tech, right? Because you can, there’s been some overlap there and just looking at roles in tech where there’s overlap and then just saying, like, look, we’re all going for the same goal here. And then, aligning the teams, but then aligning the budget to make it work. So, like, one good example is if, if there’s a problem with the data and it’s just really frustrating and they have to spend a lot of time manually updating it, taking a step back to look at, okay, what can we work on together for some data governance, some quick rules of the road, that’s going to help and not create more manual work. And then that’s going to save because better data will come about, less manual work, less frustration. So maybe it’s, maybe it’s bringing a person in to help with that. Maybe it’s a tool or is it just a process change? So, it’s being open to look at what is the right solution, but usually teams are able to identify where some of those pain points are, then it’s a matter of looking at some of the options.
[00:26:51] Terri Hoffman: If a company comes to you and says we just don’t know if we’re spending right, because I think what, what we’re talking a lot about is allocation. And that, that’s a huge point for businesses who are, are trying to manage their go-to-market budget is we have X dollars, but we don’t really know how to allocate it and set priorities and I just read an article or went to a seminar that talked about this one strategy and that kind of tends to drive you towards that one strategy versus, is that really the right thing?
[00:27:19] Terri Hoffman: Let’s step back and look at this holistically. So, I think allocation is a huge area, but just knowing like, what should I allocate? What number? What is appropriate? Because you don’t want to overspend, no doubt, but you also don’t want to underspend.
[00:27:33] Terri Hoffman: You want to make sure you’ve got enough allocated. How do you guide someone or help someone when they’re asking themselves those types of questions about their business?
[00:27:42] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, sometimes it can happen where companies are underspending because they’re, maybe they don’t fully understand what’s possible and that, actually some money spent up front, being able to communicate the brand, a few really important thought leadership pieces can go a long way, just getting the name out. So you’re not having to spend so much time trying to even get into the bid process or, get your name recognized, right? And so, so there’s definitely percentages where, benchmarks to be able to look at, it depends on company size.
[00:28:12] Heidi Hattendorf: So it definitely, always. work on that as a starting point, looking at, what are the average spend? Always benchmarking too. What are your competitors doing? How are they visible? It doesn’t mean you have to do the exact same thing. In fact, it’s obviously better to follow your own brand and in your own way to communicate, but it’s still being eyes wide open on what that looks like.
[00:28:32] Heidi Hattendorf: What’s resonating with customers. And then, just being able to look at it differently too, of, like a more innovative approach to reaching. So I think, I’ll give you an example. For so long it was all about like industry events, right? And it’s still in a lot of industries, that’s really important.
[00:28:48] Heidi Hattendorf: But then, you see some companies going more towards, let’s say an invite-only dinner type thing to, to really have a little bit more intimate feel, bring in a speaker. So that’s an example of an event go-to-market motion where it’s just a different approach and, that may or may not work for one company, but it, but it could be greatly successful for another.
[00:29:09] Heidi Hattendorf: Another one is, some companies are just getting fatigued from like the cold calling, right? And they’re saying, no, I’m going to go more. And they’ll institute, let’s say they’ll create more of a partnership, go-to-market play, which is we’re going to route these types of deals through partners.
[00:29:23] Heidi Hattendorf: Then they’ll set up a partner strategy or they’ll have a referral program. So, there’s all kinds of clever ways, but really being able to look at it more holistically and saying, okay, who am I trying to reach? Where do they hang out? And then, does my company have the means or the channel to be able to, to reach them?
[00:29:42] Heidi Hattendorf: Or, is there a different way to be able to do that? So that’s another way to be able to look at budget and spend is not only allocation, but what would it take to have a more innovative approach, such as like a partner strategy, a new event strategy, or just a different way to be able to reach your ideal customer.
[00:30:02] Terri Hoffman: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That is really helpful. That’s great insight. What, what are one of the points I previewed at the beginning, which is best practices for go-to-market strategies? I think we touched on a lot of them, right? But I’m curious if there are maybe some others that we haven’t covered yet.
[00:30:20] Terri Hoffman: Like we talked about branding, positioning, tools, analytics, and budgeting. What are some of the other, best practices that you like to have as part of your solutions?
[00:30:28] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, I mean, I think one of the most critical is getting that understanding and keeping it current about what is on the mind of customers and prospects and how the market’s changing.
[00:30:38] Heidi Hattendorf: And that’s, that’s the entire leadership team, but that’s also across the company. So, it’s not just marketing or sales job to, to be on top of that. Then internal plays, even for a small company to make sure everybody’s in tune with what that’s about. I think the discovery process and even if it’s small questionnaires or just staying current, getting out there talking to customers, just always having a pulse on the market.
[00:31:02] Heidi Hattendorf: I mean, that can’t be replaced by AI, just, just really being in touch with that is one. And that kind of leads into another, which is around, being human, right? So you talked before about how much can be done through AI, but it’s just remembering the human side of business.
[00:31:15] Heidi Hattendorf: And then, thinking about not just the tactical and like what’s here today, but thinking, the two years out, the three years out where you want to be. And then are these motions, are these investments really getting you towards that? For example, it could be, investing in a slightly adjacent market.
[00:31:31] Heidi Hattendorf: It could be expanding the service line or the product line, but those are some best practices is not just thinking about today, but, thinking the 2 to 3 years out. Close customer contact with a pulse on the market. Also, the changing needs and the changing technology. So, then, then looking out as to what else is changing around you, not just being isolated within your own industry.
[00:31:53] Heidi Hattendorf: A lot of times, disruption happens because it comes in from another industry or comes in from a completely different perspective. So having, just having that broader view around it. So I think, that’s what makes it exciting with all the data out there and, different forums.
[00:32:07] Heidi Hattendorf: I think there’s more interest than ever to, get close to some of these areas, to be human, let the technology do its thing. So yeah, those are some of the best practices I would absolutely recommend.
[00:32:18] Terri Hoffman: One of the reasons I was really excited to have you on as a guest is because of your SAS and tech industry experience.
[00:32:25] Terri Hoffman: What those industries have done really well with their go-to-market strategies is they’ve developed a level of sophistication and best practices that are just expected from the go-to-market teams now, and it’s so data-driven and so rigorous and disciplined. A lot of our clients are in the B2B industrial manufacturing construction.
[00:32:46] Terri Hoffman: And I, I, I’m really, hoping that more of that rigor and actual structure starts to get adopted and integrated into these other industries where it’s not commonly seen. I think those industries are very sales-driven for very good reason, right? It’s all about building relationships and building trust and being accountable. But I do think that what modern go-to-market strategies can add onto that just makes that relationship building more intelligent and it’s done in a more prioritized and like strategic way so that you’re driving towards things. What, what are your thoughts on that?
[00:33:21] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah. I love how you packaged that up because it’s well said.
[00:33:24] Heidi Hattendorf: I’ve also worked in manufacturing and it’s, it definitely is a relationship-driven, trust, quality is absolutely essential. Selecting vendor management, supplier management, and they agree. There’s absolutely an opportunity for a little more on the tech and the automation side beyond what’s being automated, let’s say within manufacturing, but, from the marketing, but at the same time, I feel like the, the SAS and the tech world could benefit from some of that relationship and, the, get the human side, right?
[00:33:51] Heidi Hattendorf: So there’s, there’s some cross learnings, both ways. But yeah, and I see that too, like certain industries just haven’t adopted as quickly some of the tech and it also depends on volume, right? Like if you’re just dealing with a smaller number of clients that you go really deep, maybe it hasn’t forced as much of that automation compared to, let’s say in the consumer world where it’s,
[00:34:11] Heidi Hattendorf: it, everything’s driven by numbers and clicks and, just a lot, a lot of different metrics than you would see in B2B, but it’s a good contrast in terms of, let’s say manufacturing from SAS and yeah, absolutely some learnings that can go both ways.
[00:34:26] Terri Hoffman: Yeah. Well, you, you also just said something else I think is really key. It ties back to many things you commented on during the interview, but like really understanding your audience and what they need, right. And then what’s the best way to get in front of them? Because if you’ve got a go-to-market strategy with an audience size of 50,000, or you have an audience size of 500, who makes a very high average purchase price.
[00:34:51] Terri Hoffman: You probably don’t want the same strategy for those two scenarios, right? You still have to have a message. You still got to have a website and a solid foundation, but the way that you might choose to reach them and build those relationships and then go about nurturing those relationships could look very different.
[00:35:08] Terri Hoffman: And I think that’s also important to understand is there in the digital marketing space, there isn’t a one size fits all right. There’s so many ways to adjust what you’re doing and it has to be all about the customer. Like what’s going to serve the customer and get them engaged.
[00:35:22] Heidi Hattendorf: That’s exactly it. I mean, there are so many ways and that’s where I think sometimes companies, they just really chase after what’s the latest trend and oh, we have to be out on the social media platform, but maybe not.
[00:35:32] Heidi Hattendorf: It really depends again, if your ideal customer is out there, or is it going to be, is it a much smaller, more of a niche type market, and then it’s more relationships, more face to face, and then it becomes more business development. So, for example, as, if it’s a manufactured product, creating something that, maybe they’re in on the first prototype, or if it’s a new service line, maybe, having a round table with them and, or brainstorm, under an NDA to discuss some ideas that could go into it, there’s that opportunity to bring some of these, marquee customers into the fold, into some of the developments to weigh in much earlier that, are just more difficult to facilitate, with something where it’s more of a mass product, whether or service, whether it’s B2B or B2C.
[00:36:16] Heidi Hattendorf: But taking advantage sometimes of those smaller forums, having a more intimate relation, and baking in some of that expertise as you go. Yeah. It can be really powerful.
[00:36:26] Terri Hoffman: I mean, I feel like Heidi, you’re really hitting on the value of working with somebody that has a lot of experience in this field, is.
[00:36:35] Terri Hoffman: As marketers, we have to have like this whole like toolbox and we have to know when it’s time to pull out tool A, tool B, tool C, all three, right? And how they get used to get like that comes with, with time and experience. And of course we have to keep up with new tools that get added and we have to throw those into our, our toolbox as well.
[00:36:56] Terri Hoffman: But I think working with someone like you that has a variety of experiences and knows when it’s time to pull out different tools shouldn’t be overlooked, right? Especially as like a consultant and, and to engage someone as a consultant to take that approach. And then the way that that gets resourced and implemented could be handled completely differently, right?
[00:37:17] Heidi Hattendorf: Well, first, thank you, Terri. No, I appreciate what you’re saying and recognizing. I mean, I think sometimes people hear consultant and they just think it’s like, oh, someone’s going to give me advice and hope it works.
[00:37:29] Heidi Hattendorf: But it’s actually an extension of the team. So what’s exciting now is that, companies can outsource for expertise. It could be, for implementation, it can be for both. And so like for me, I’ll come in, I’ll be able to work together with the leadership team, but then I’m also working on implementation.
[00:37:46] Heidi Hattendorf: So whether it’s things I’m doing myself or I’m bringing in others, or working with the company’s team, the idea is that it’s a supplement to what they’re doing. It’s it’s bringing in an expertise and someone that can hit the ground running and really be part of that
[00:38:00] Heidi Hattendorf: story and, and help them, in client-facing work as well. And I think because it’s fractional, I mean, it’s, it’s not the same as hiring someone to bring in a full time. And then maybe the needs change a year down the road, and that’s like the beauty of it. Now you’ve, there’s so many more choices for bringing in expertise, like this.
[00:38:20] Heidi Hattendorf: And it’s, you mentioned before about budgeting. I mean, it can be really a key strategic investment because it’s really saving the company money in other ways. And also just the return that you get by accelerating, but then also hitting, hitting that right ROI bringing in the business that you wanted to bring in and having that, more robust thought leadership, and polished messaging out there.
[00:38:43] Heidi Hattendorf: That’s what I think is exciting. That’s why I just really enjoy working with the clients that I do.
[00:38:47] Terri Hoffman: Yeah, you can tell that definitely shines through as you’re talking about your work. That definitely is clear. What are some other things that you’re, seeing in the market?
[00:38:55] Terri Hoffman: Are there other things you’re hearing from your clients, other trends you’re seeing in the market that, you want to add in as we come to the end of the interview?
[00:39:04] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, we talked a lot about AI, but something that ties to AI and as well just, marketing trends in general is companies are really coming down to like what’s real, what’s actually working, separating out the hype.
[00:39:16] Heidi Hattendorf: So, they’re probably not going to be doing like these massive big email campaigns. It’s, it’s going to be targeted. It’s going to have a specific purpose. AI, same with the POCs going on for that. It’s going to have a specific purpose, measurable results, and then they’ll, they’ll make the investments accordingly.
[00:39:33] Heidi Hattendorf: So that’s something that, that, we’re seeing. Automation where it makes sense. So, again, let’s free up teams. I think there’s recognition that people have been, really overloaded and overstretched. So. Making the best bets and the best investments and maybe not doing everything like before.
[00:39:49] Heidi Hattendorf: So it’s all about what’s real, quantity over, quality over quantity, just having a better integration and, smooth running machine being in touch, as I mentioned before, with, with what the market wants. Where things are going and then just being ready to, to evolve. So, looking ahead, not just only focus on today’s fire, today’s urgency, but, like for example, bringing on board a new client, really understanding where does that customer want to be in two years, and helping your customer with their customers, and then in seeing that success
[00:40:21] Heidi Hattendorf: being able to pivot, move on and adapt. I mean, I think the adaptability is more key than ever, but I am definitely seeing, companies coming back to the core, what they’re really good at, and then looking at, let’s say, partnerships. outsourcing other ways so that there’s just not this constant feeling of being overwhelmed, but you know, instead just being, proactive on the front foot, leveraging expertise, leveraging technology, and just coming across, having a really solid story and reaping the rewards.
[00:40:50] Heidi Hattendorf: It’s a great, it’s a great formula, and I’m really happy to be out there supporting that.
[00:40:54] Terri Hoffman: I love how you made all of that sound like so easy too.
[00:40:57] Terri Hoffman: One of my favorite things to talk about in the marketing world is that your marketing, and I’m talking about marketing, but this is true for the whole go-to-market team, right?
[00:41:06] Terri Hoffman: You’ve got to be able to think and operate strategically. You’ve got to be able to execute tactically. You’ve got to be creative, but you also have to have like a strong technical capability with all of the tools that we have to use. And that’s not just like how to post on LinkedIn, but that’s in the, that’s in the weeds of an example on the technical side, but like, you have to figure out how to keep that all together and weigh and balance and prioritize
[00:41:33] Terri Hoffman: and figure out how to allocate time and resources across all that. It’s a, it’s a very challenging position and role, but I think very often skipped and missed and people just want to jump straight to doing and getting the activity back. But making sure that you’ve got the right strategy in place, I think is, is critical.
[00:41:53] Terri Hoffman: It’s a huge balancing act.
[00:41:54] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a really good point. I feel like, there’s that saying that every company is technical now. I feel like the biggest trend we’ve seen over the last few years is that business teams are becoming more technical, so it’s no longer okay to just leave that to IT or leave that to technology.
[00:42:10] Heidi Hattendorf: And at the same time, technology teams. are, having to become more business savvy and really, understanding the business so that they know the context and that they can be more powerful. So, each person, in each role still has their, their core function. I don’t think they’re losing that, but it’s, it’s really a compliment because it helps them bridge that.
[00:42:30] Heidi Hattendorf: And, and then again, it comes back to what we talked about on go-to-market. Instead of things being done in serial, it means it can be done more collaboratively, more together, absolutely accelerating time. I mean, I’m excited too. I’ve always had a technical interest and always worked in, in technology. So to see this becoming more mainstream is great.
[00:42:49] Heidi Hattendorf: I, I’ve got two patents that I’m proud of and, I think being able to delve into the technology side, but with a business purpose and, having it serve a purpose that way is exciting. But just to see how far companies have come, being able to, have, have a view on both.
[00:43:06] Terri Hoffman: I can’t believe that we just got all the way to the tail end of this interview and you’re like, Oh, by the way, I have two patents that I’m really proud of.
[00:43:16] Heidi Hattendorf: I mean,
[00:43:16] Terri Hoffman: it’s just a little thing. Yeah, that’s really cool. Yeah. No, but
[00:43:21] Heidi Hattendorf: it’s, it’s really about like inventing and building, and I think that’s something that is just really great about not only entrepreneurship, but what companies are up to is that they can reinvent themselves.
[00:43:32] Heidi Hattendorf: They can build on past successes and they can be able to take it forward. So, I think, I think we’re going to continue to see that convergence and, and people switching roles, let’s say within a company because of having that. knowledge of a market, knowledge of the business and being able to play different roles.
[00:43:49] Heidi Hattendorf: So, and it’s, it’s good for talents. It’s, it’s good for growth. It’s good for everyone.
[00:43:53] Terri Hoffman: Yeah. That well rounded. My growth mindset I think is really important. Growth
[00:43:58] Heidi Hattendorf: Mindset for sure.
[00:43:59] Terri Hoffman: Yeah. Well, I have a couple of fun questions at the end. I’m not, I’m not going to ask you about go-to-market strategies anymore.
[00:44:07] Terri Hoffman: If you’re, if you’re open to questions.
Heidi Hattendorf: That’s fun too though.
Terri Hoffman: So yeah, I, I’m gonna, well, that’s true. I kind of love nerding out over that stuff. So I agree. What is your, do you have a, like a business book or, or actually it doesn’t even have to be a business book, but do you have a book that you find yourself recommending Or even like sending to people over and over.
[00:44:27] Terri Hoffman: What’s one of your favorites?
[00:44:30] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah. I think, the whole, um, Lean Startup is, is really good. It’s just that whole lean approach, melded into what, what businesses can do to it, to iterate. I mentioned before about Nail It, Then Scale It, that type of mindset, certainly around growth mindset.
[00:44:49] Heidi Hattendorf: I think those are some key areas where, it just talks about being able to build, being able to grow. So those are a few that I would, I would definitely recommend.
[00:44:59] Terri Hoffman: Okay. Those are great. I’ll add those to my list. Yeah. I love my podcast because I get to get like build my reading list
[00:45:06] Terri Hoffman: if I ask that question at the end, it’s fun.
[00:45:08] Heidi Hattendorf: There’s other ones, too. I feel like I always love, like, Atomic Habits, things like that, where it’s like, oh, it’s getting, like, cool little tricks and hacks, and so I think that type of, that type of book, Essentialism, those are really good, too, because it gives you clarity and focus, each one kind of gives you a different perspective.
[00:45:26] Heidi Hattendorf: Yeah. So yeah, I could go on though. I love, and I love different podcasts. So yeah, that’s why I’m on this, right? I mean, I love the work that you’re doing to just Giving that that lens for marketing and go-to-market. Yeah, really important.
[00:45:41] Terri Hoffman: What’s, what’s the best vacation? You’ve ever taken?
[00:45:44] Heidi Hattendorf: . Oh my gosh. So many. So I lived overseas for 11 years. I worked, I worked in Spain and in the UK. I did a ton of travel for business, but then also just for leisure and one of the best just African safari.
[00:45:57] Heidi Hattendorf: I mean, I think going to Kenya, Tanzania, Botswana and seeing the animals in their natural habitat is just amazing. It’s it’s just really humbling. It also gets you out of, being in front of computers all day and, in industry. It’s just a way to like unwind and step back. So yeah, I would say that’s good.
[00:46:15] Heidi Hattendorf: I, another good one though, that I’ve done is the ice hotel in, in Sweden. So it’s like North of the Arctic circle and just being able to, it sounds crazy, especially for someone who living in a warm climate, but just being able to like, I don’t know, just the, Having no sound other than being in this, this literally this ice and snow igloo, it was amazing.
[00:46:36] Heidi Hattendorf: And just doing the dog sledding and, snowmobiling all those different activities. So that was also, yeah. So I think the nature is really that common theme. I love boating and, I’ve got my sailing skipper’s license, so definitely nature.
[00:46:52] Terri Hoffman: Oh, cool. That’s such a fun list of things you had there.
[00:46:56] Terri Hoffman: And then my last one is, what is your favorite job you’ve ever had?
[00:47:01] Heidi Hattendorf: Oh, I mean, I just feel like every single role I’ve had is, just brought something, you know what I mean? It’s so yeah, I’ve just been really fortunate just to be, all of these different, different roles and different jobs.
[00:47:13] Heidi Hattendorf: So yeah, it’s hard to put a finger on any, any one, I would just say, maybe this is the best because now, taking like a whole career of experience different places and being able to wrap it up and package it up for companies. So maybe I’m a little biased, but this is probably the best.
[00:47:29] Terri Hoffman: I think that’s a really good way to wrap up our conversation. I, I have to tell you that that was going to be the obvious answer to me because it’s so clear how passionate you are about what you do and how important it is to actually like put together solutions at work for your clients and then bring them success.
[00:47:46] Terri Hoffman: It’s just your passion definitely comes through. I think it’s really cool. So congratulations on where you’ve arrived with your career. And again, thank you so much for spending some time in this interview today. I think there’s a lot of really great nuggets for our listeners and I really appreciate your time.
[00:48:02] Terri Hoffman: Thank you for joining.
[00:48:03] Heidi Hattendorf: Oh, thank you, Terri. It’s just been great. I mean, I feel like the time flew and just so many great topics that we can cover together and I just love the work you’re doing. So again, thanks for having me on and yeah, just a lot of great things out there.
[00:48:17] Terri Hoffman: Thank you, Heidi.
[00:48:19] Terri Hoffman: Thank you for listening to B2B marketing methods. Please be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast channel and leave us a review. We’d love to hear from you and connect. You can find me on LinkedIn or visit our company website at marketingrefresh.com.
